Going stateless? No citizenship?

[CJ Miller]

It seems that I am at bit of a crossroads in life. My social interactions with people are pretty dysfunctional, and I am not sure how to proceed. My requirements are (apparently!) simple. I need fair, rational relationships with people. That I do not tolerate anybody trying for an advantage over others has often resulted in strife when and with whom I have not expected. Constantly I encourage people to articulate their goals and opinions and try to create a basis for social structure, and it has caused me little but problems. For instance I have never had a drivers license, travel documents, certifications, nor usually even employment - because most of those involved refuse to negotiate with me, or other individuals, as equals.

For seven years I have been married in New England, and for five had a decent-paying job. It has been in some ways the most stable time of my life. But lately things have been going badly with the wife and job, mostly because they try to weasel in unfair treatments, and back them up with really poor argumentation. I can tell when people are trying to BS me (often) and argue circles around people who decide to subject me to whatever state of affairs. After years of careful consideration, I am basically prepared to simply walk away from my job and family. It hurts, but I can only offer so many attempts at fair negotiation with weasels. Apparently to them fair=naive and they always expect me to be a gullible sucker for power plays, based on whatever irrational primate role-playing routines, and I am expected to gratefully hang on for more in the promises that if I endure whatever indignity, surely it will get better later on. Mind you, I am not claiming to be a know-it-all or have the most refined ethics in the world... but at least I am able and willing to discuss such things, when those around me are either unable or unwilling to do so.

My plans have not developed much further than walking away, since I do not know how things are likely to be elsewhere. It is a step into the void, with no assurances of fun or survival. Hopefully I can make a few portable noisemakers! Anyway, US citizenship is difficult to get rid of. I would supposedly need their approval to travel abroad, and they only release a person from citizenship if they can establish citizenship elsewhere. Anybody out there not the citizen of any particular country? Any tips? Possibly I could "buy" citizenship from a country which is less critical about these things, cancel my US, and then cancel the new one also. I just don't need any groups "owning" me and negotiating things on my behalf. I am not escaping nor do I have a grudge against any particular country or group of people - I just need to choose with whom I associate.

And on that note - where to go? I have been around the US and eastern Canada, but not traveled beyond this. Looking for people who are fairly rational, who prioritize society organized around science instead of commerce. I am a good scavenger and have survived for years before with no money or charity, living off the waste of the cities of the northeastern US. I do not mind not using money, in fact I prefer to do without it. Any ideas?

[nobody]

[nobody]

[mosc]

I don't think you should renounce your American citizenship. You can have citizenship in multiple countries if you want. The worst thing that can happen is to be somewhere and be a person without a country. If you think they treat you badly now, wait until that happens.

Your problems are not other people. If you think your problems are other people, then you will always have problems. Look to yourself, in your self, and within yourself, and find some kind of peace with the world that exists as it is, no matter what you may want it to be. If you can be comfortable in your own skin, you can be comfortable anywhere.

Still, I find Canada a bit more friendly than east coast USA. It doesn't get any better than Vancouver.

I'm not trying to criticize, just trying to help. I wish you the best.

[BobTheDog]

[CJ Miller]

I appreciate the feedback. But the problem isn't that I am unhappy, or uncomfortable. It is more of a practical concern.

Most of us here I assume have experimented with music, tech, synths, computers, etc. It would be weird to imagine living somewhere where this sort of thing was forbidden, and needed to be done in secret on the fringes of society. (I know, we can joke that SDIY and bugmusic are underground, but not so much really.) I am very civically minded. And I am compelled to hack and understand how things work. So even though I am happy to tinker with music gear, this in some ways is so much technological detritus. Many people agree that social structures such as family, money, religion, government, etc are more immediately important. To me these kinds of things are human technology at its most essential. And like any tech, they are often in practice broken or not working very well. To discourage people from getting together and trying their own kinds of family, money, religion, government, etc is basically totalitarian. It suggests that there is one way for us all to live, and if you don't like it - shut up or get out. Invent with the little peripheral details, but not the stuff that really matters.

I love surviving by my wits, and working at what I love. And I do not disappear into the background very easily. Rather than dropping out, I would rather show up "mainstream" as being a fraud. It is easy to find people who don't believe in money or cars or towns - but they still use them! Because I guess it is a captive audience. And many people who feel that they know better ways to live, but won't because they fear it would be unpopular.

I guess I should apply myself more towards "culture DIY" where instead of rallying in so many sideshows, trying to persuade some mainstream to change, or complain and critique it - to work in parallel. Multiple governments in the same geography, multiple currencies. Get people to inject some biological diversity with more decentralized parallel systems. Create some cool new social structures instead of trying to fit into mediocre ones we inherit from monoculture, the ones we are told are acceptable by whoever. If it doesn't actually prevent others from living how they choose, nobody has any right to complain, as they themselves are free to choose also.

As far as work on myself goes, I agree that there is always work that can be done. I enjoy exercise, yoga, learning, building, art, science. But socially, each person must IMO be encouraged to personally and directly negotiate their social relationships and civic roles. Otherwise we might wake up to find we are living amongst fearful conformists who believe that they surreptitiously nudge culture from the peanut gallery, instead of knowing that anybody can do it - and succeed or fail proudly by their own efforts, with those of their chosen friends and allies.

[CJ Miller]

I guess the big difference is that most people do not consider society on this level as being "technology". But it does meet some definitions. If Mosc describes something more Taoist, I guess I picture my corner of Connecticut like the Athenian senate, where we have a great time collectively debating the fabric of social reality together. Problem is that nobody else around here appreciates this direct approach and suggests a Wizard of Oz approach where the rules have already been decided by powerful people behind the scenes who have more of a wealth of friends, money, and ideas than I could possibly comprehend. I think it's classist, lazy, does everybody a disservice.

Everywhere I am, I (try to!) encourage people to directly participate in whatever structures define the lives of themselves and their families. And like the most pernicious forms of censorship, it is usually the oppressed themselves who threaten me. Because somebody has promised to them, for a great cost, the power that they themselves actually had all along.

Now I feel like a stereotypical protagonist in a Heinlein novel, so I am going back to the bench to get some work done...

[mosc]

Great posts, CJ. Sounds like you are looking for America, before it got mono-culturalized. I would disagree with some of your posts, though. Like, most people who don't like aspects of the dominant culture, like, for example, cars, don't avoid them because it would be unpopular, but impractical. Where I live, I couldn't survive without a car. Maybe I should live somewhere else.

Anyway. Even though Connecticut is very liberal, it is one of the most conservative places I've every lived. They won't lynch or tar and feather people that push the culture, but they are great at making you feel like you don't belong. Hard to appreciate it if you haven't lived through it.

I imagine that all communities will end up like that given enough time. I lived in Berkeley, California, for a number of years. The same thing happens there, but with different biases. I would reluctantly suggest, it can happen here on electro-music.com too, but we try to stay open. But notice how little rap and hip-hop musicians hang out here. A few...

[nobody]

[BobTheDog]