MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: the funky drummer on a G2?

sheridan · Last edited by sheridan on Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:07 pm; edited 3 times in total

Hello all. I recently created some 'drum machine' patches so that I could mke some drum sounds on my G2 (they can be found in the Drum section of the Patch download pages if anyone is interested). Anyway, I was using these sounds in a new tune the other day and I was really quite pleased with the snare in particular, especially after I had patched in some pitch and amplitude modulation. This gave me a (terrible) idea... to try and do the impossible - recreate James Brown's 'Funky drummer' on my G2!! Twisted Evil

Of course, I had several problems and the attached patch is only sounds good BEFORE you hear the original!!! First, the timing of the clock obviously isn't going to match that of the drummer, but on the snare at least, I was able to add delays to individual hits where necessary - note that they are all just about in same place as the original break now. It took ages before I realised that there was 1 slightly open hi hat sound in the break, but it made a big difference when I implemented it into the patch. Also, there is a 'hollowness' in some of the bass region of the bass drum that I found particularly hard to reproduce.

I thought I'd share it with you... I would really love to see if any of you experts could get this patch any closer to the original sound. How is that for a challenge? Or maybe more of a mission impossible?

There is an mp3 of a few bars of the original Funky drummer also attached, but please.. give me a break and listen to the patch FIRST!! Very Happy

For those few who are interested in taking up this challenge, here are a few points to note: The bass drum is resonant at 125 Hz with it's fundamental frequency at around 62 Hz. The snare drum's fundamental is at 250 Hz and it is resonant at 425 Hz and there is also a pronounced ring at 1.25 kHz, which I tried to recreate using a frequency modulated triangle wave whose harmonics lay in this region and whose fundamental I filtered out.

I'm not really expecting anyone to have a go (I know how difficult/impossible it is), but I am really interested to see how close a G2 can get. After all, I've only had mine for a few months and I'm still not that sure how to get the sounds that I'm trying to get, but I think I've done pretty well with this 'mission' so far! I found it a rewarding (and sometimes frustrating) experience.

Note that only the variations that are on when loaded are set and the wiring is a mess!

<<EDITED>> New improved versions attached below.

Funky drummer.mp3

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Funky drummer audio - mp3

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Funky drummer.prf2

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G2 Funky drummer (version 1)

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Funky drummer.prf2

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Funky drummer v3.prf2

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most improved version: version 3

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Funky drummer v3.prf2

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Afro88 · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:

Um... wow... I was about to reply here and do the whole "this is a pointless exercise" thing, but I thought I'd download the patch and check for myself. You've done a pretty damn good job! The snare is great! Great to see the timing is implemented too, alot of people ignore that and focus on the sound which wrecks the whole process. I don't have time now, but hopefully sometime today I'll have a crack at fixing the bass drum. Sounds like it needs some subtle overdrive/saturation or something...

Now do the amen break!! Wink

sheridan · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject:

Thanks Max. Just to let you know, I started with a more realistic sounding kick drum, but it evolved to what it is now as that is more like the actual sound of the audio kick... for instance - you can't hear the beater sound really (on original). Trying to recreate a real bass drum is one thing, but I'm trying to recreate the sound of a recording of one!
I look forward to hearing your improvements and hope others take up the challenge too, although judging by the early downloads, it seems most people are just downloading the original break! Oh well, I thought as much. Very Happy

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:48 pm Post subject:

Regardless of how close it is to the original, I'm VERY impressed by this. This is great work! Sounds like a sampler, not like a synth.

I've never been into drum synthesis much, as I never thought one could achieve these kinds of results. My mistake.

I'll have to study it. study

So, don't expect an patch improvement from me in the near future. Sorry. Wink

Great stuff, sheridan! Hail the Master

Afro88 · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:56 am Post subject:

Seconded.

I tried fixing the bassdrum but didn't get very far Embarassed

It's a very subtle patch, slight changes wreck the feel of it. I'll keep playing around with it, but I can't make any promises. I'd be pretty damn happy with where it's at hey!

sheridan · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:21 am Post subject:

Thanks again guys. I have to admit that I have some secret weapons when it comes to this kind of thing... firstly, I use a Waves frequency analyser set up in Cubase. Secondly, I am able to loop the original break and sync the G2 to play in time (over the top if neccessary). This helps get the timing right. Also, when trying to recreate the individual hits, I sweep an extremely high boost/narrow band eq over the original to find the main frequencies, ie. fundamental or the ringing of the snare. So this gives me the benefit of knowing which frequencies each sound approximately requires. The bit where I 'fall down' is in recreating exactly what I can hear, due to a severe lack of experience (or maybe constraints of the G2 even), although as you say, I seem to have done ok.
Still, I'm sure there must be more able 'modular magicians' out there than me and so I am still hoping to hear this G2 break sounding more like the original... tough challenge, I know - only the bravest need apply!!

3phase · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:36 am Post subject:

sheridan · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:39 am Post subject:

Well, believe it or not, I have managed to improve this patch a fair bit. The hats are now more realistic, thanks to some carefull filtering and modulated overdrive to make the open sound rasp a little. The kicks also are now much better after I added some reverb and corrected the frequency of one of the oscilators. I then fed some of the hats signal into the kick's reverb and compressed the whole output. The snares have only had a little amplitude modulation changed, but now have a seperate sequencer to control the amount of snares going to the reverb.

It's obviously still not the same as the original (and as 3phase just said, I'm sure that is impossible), but it's a definite improvement over the last patch. Come on you lot!! Someone has to be able to get it closer to the original... and I've given you all a darn-tooting good start!! Very Happy

Now for that well deserved break... happy smoker

Oh, one other thing - I wasn't really sure how to implement the timing 'corrections' for the snare... is there a better or cheaper way of doing it? The delay module turned all the connected control cables red (more cycles) and about every other bar, the first snare seems to be played twice (or part of it). Maybe that's because of a mistake I made. Any soloutions anybody?

Funky drummer v2.prf2

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G2 Funky drummer v2

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Funky drummer v2.prf2

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ian-s · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:36 pm Post subject:

sheridan · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject:

Thanks Ian. Funnily enough, I tried that and it didn't work, but it was probably because of it's different way of working. I'll look into it again.

sheridan · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject:

I've got it a little bit closer still. I reworked the timing of the snare using the logic delay as suggested and then added timing control to the hats too. Now the problem with the 'rogue' extra snare has gone.
Also, I noticed when I filtered all but the bass of the original break, that there is a kind of double hit to the 1st and 3rd kicks - kind of like a short flam. This was easily incorporated and takes the patch just that tiny bit closer to the goal.
Honestly, it's not a whole lot different from v2, but it is a noticable improvement once again... it's quite nice loading the 3 versions in order, hearing the improvement each time. Isn't anyone else going to have a go then? erm, maybe not ...

Funky drummer v3.prf2

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Funky drummer v3

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Funky drummer v3.prf2

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Afro88 · Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:00 pm Post subject:

Well, I started trying to improve it, but in the end gave in to temptation and just played around with everything. I can't say it's better, but I thought I should post it here anyway. Just an experiment to see what I could change to get other musical results.

It's a pretty versatile patch, and alot of fun to play around with. It's like stepping inside the break and stretching stuff around, telling the drummer to hit the drum a certain way etc. Awesome!

afro_drummer1.prf2

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Modification of the funky drummer patch by Sheridan

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afro_drummer1.prf2

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sheridan · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:02 am Post subject:

Nice one Max - sounds great.

mosc · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:19 am Post subject:

These sound great, guys, but I have a question: what do you do with these patches? They sound like one measure of music to me. Why not program up the other 7 variations and so you could play complex patterns by selecting them in sequence? Am I missing something?

sheridan · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:54 am Post subject:

For me personally, this has just been an experiment or test. I only got my G2 a few months ago and never used modular synths before, so I have been learning how to use it through these experiments. Also, I am really interested in seeing how close a G2 can replicate something (difficult). I am desperate to hear the snare closer to the original. I think Afro has taken up your idea though.

mosc · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject:

OK, I see. You are trying to replicate accoustic drums partly as a learning experience. That's cool. I remembe when I started working in modular synthesis I was trying to recreate oboes and french horns.

Unfed · Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject:

not only acoustic drums, but the fact that it's one of the most famous breakbeats in sampling history. the fact that Sheridan has come so close to duplicating it (on a synth no less) is a feat in itself. now let's see who can pull of the James Brown grunts and the 'ain't it funky now'...

Very Happy

3phase · Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:46 pm Post subject:

sheridan · Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:14 pm Post subject:

Sounds like a good idea. Go for it! This was just an experiment for me anyway. It's not my kind of music really... that is, I don't make this kind (breakbeat).
I did try to improve the snare today, but couldn't! The current snare sounds like the audio snares on the 'in between' snares, but the '2' and '4' snares don't sound at all like the actual ones yet. (hope that made sense to you all). I'm still determined to get them better... maybe using the last slot for the 2 and 4 snares?
Maybe, one day.

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject:

3phase · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:59 am Post subject: