Judas Priest

[Inventor]

I am deeply inspired by the EP and new album "Nostradamus" by Judas Priest. A departure or rather expansion of their typical "Hair Metal" style, this music boils with historical significance. It is full of destiny, prediction, and fate. The music drones on and on, with no breaks between songs.

The problem is I can't listen and pick out what's doing that sound. There's violins and synthesizers, piano and guitar all mixed together in a chaotic maelstrom.

How would you even begin to ChucKify such music. I want to work in that style or my own version of it.

[dewdrop_world]

On a broader aesthetic level, emulating a style can be a useful exercise but don't lose sight of what is "your" music. (Bach learned a lot from copying Vivaldi's scores, but he didn't get locked into copying the style either.)

Some years ago, I set out to learn a lot from house and breakbeat styles. I spent a lot of time close listening, going as far as to try to transcribe some Aphex Twin tracks into notation. A full transcription may or may not be useful to you, but it will be very useful to listen to passages trying to isolate layers of the texture. Focus on one layer and listen repeatedly until you can really hear what that layer is doing. Making some notes on paper (either verbal, graphical or conventional notation or some combination) can help you remember what you heard later on. Then go to the next layer and so on. After understanding a few of the layers, then you can start looking for relationships between them.

I think this is an essential process when learning any style. All the ChucK technique in the world doesn't teach you the elements of the style and how to use its potential influences for your own ends.

James

[Inventor]

Oh yeah, great advice, James! I like the concept of "layers" and this music is full of many many layers, plus the notion of making free-form notes be they text, graphics, diagrams, or whatever is totally my style.

What I like about it is the power, the significance, the deep strong impact of it. Like God's thundering voice or A canon shot in an AC/DC song, these lyrics are deeply meaningful. I envision that once I am done telling my own story through song, I might perhaps tell historical stories that way and give them the same thundering significance.

The best advice you gave was the same advice they gave me about my new guitar which was: spend a lot of time with it! And I shall...

[chuckles]

Very good suggestions and ideas. I have found for me that the kind of work I produce is bound to be influenced in greater or less degree by the tools and media I choose.

For instance, you won't create very credible heavy metal with an accordian and a ukulele. Certain "styles" do have their own "grammars". The great thing about music (and art in general) is that there are still infinite capacities for crossover: thus the Finnish cello quartet Apocalyptica doing Metallica songs (http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:hvfoxq9hldje) and Pat Boone covering heavy metal classics ("In a metal mood" http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kxfpxqthldde)

Are these just oddities or real music?

I have been using Ableton Live as the basis for all my compositions for about 5 years. Live just makes it too easy for me to use the same structures and gestures. No disparagement of Live intended; it is an amazingly flexible and powerful tool. It's I who am lazy or without sufficient creativity to transcend its workflow.

In any case, the thing I like about Chuck is that it is forcing me to thing about composition and sound design from a completely different perspective. What it has in common with Live is the unstoppable audio engine; I need instant gratification since I work on the fly rather than planning out a piece and then programming it (which you could also do with Chuck).

The cool thing is that Chuck is free! whereas Live will set you back several hundred $$ (unless you've been upgrading, which I've been doing.)

So thanks to all the contributors to this forum and to the authors, documenters and users of Chuck.

[kijjaz]

Yes. Thanks for all.

to chuckles: yes, i agree also. there's still a lot of room for crossover..
actually i feel that crossover is what really driving the arts..

just like the whole universe are composed of... filters -_-"

[Inventor]

Man i was recently influenced by Judas Priest but now it's the song Space Lord by Monster Magnets on the Powertrip album. And Aretha Franklin's "Respect".

[elektro80]

James is giving good advice.

As for Chuck, I don´t think that is the place to start if you want to learn a style like Heavy Metal.

One thing is figuring out what the layers are doing, but it is another thing to figure out why and where the "style" ends and where the song starts. And what makes a particular song still stay in a genre/style even though there is a whole lot of other stuff going on. Obviously tonality, structure and references ( as in "other"/"older" music" ) would be of interest.

A good place to start for you if you are still interested in heavy rock would be the Rising LP by Rainbow.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_(Rainbow_album)

Stylistically it pretty much sums up all the essensial heavy Rock stuff leaning on Heavy Metal. Another take on "heavy" would be this one:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razamanaz

Studying both flavors would be smart.

And then there is Hawkwind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Space

[Inventor]

Yes, I'd better research those topics to get a feel for the origins or definitions of metal. I may be barking up the wrong tree thinking I'll be able to do a decent metal song in ChucK.

I guess what i'm impressed by is the sheer power of these metal songs. For example when I listen to "Space Lord" by Monster Magnets, I really get the impression that this guy is some kind of space lord character from some real life science fiction or something. I dunno, it just gets to me.

In a similar way, my own songs that i posted recently had a sort of an impact of their own. Hearing "Schizophrenia", you think "yep, he's schizo", and hearing "My Secret Weapon", you think "Whoah, back away from that guy, he's about to blow!", which were the truth behind the lyrics and music.

So in saying i admire this metal style, eh, the metal itself is not it so much as the power, the significance, the genuineness of expression. Am i making sense. So, I will take what you guys have said to heart and do some googling and listening. Thanks.

[Inventor]

Wow I just listened to Rainbow and it was amazing. Truly defines the genre. I can imagine doing some of those hard-hitting 1Hz bursts of guitar power with my guitar exercise routine somehow. i'm starting to synthesize the whole GMS project with Metal to form a sort of additional sound to be added to metal. This would not define a new genre, but merely introduce an additional tool for the rock/metal world to utilize. Or do i dream too big, haha?

[Floppy]

for your idea i would recomend you ableton live.
because you can put the original song on the first audiotrack, warp it thru the whole arrangement until it fits the bpm of the song and start to recreate the metal drums, guitars, bass... with virtual instruments.
i often use a whole song as sample first, build stuff around this until overload and remove the original song then. results can be very surprising and are mostly expanding your typical style.
this method is like a blueprint and makes it easy to find exact notes, chords and suitable instruments.
i tried this once with "breaking the law" but felt that the song cant be caught in any other form then the original....at this moments i wish i would have access to the original multitrack recordings.
if melodyne keeps its promises we will be a huge step ahead in this technique soon.

[Inventor]

[Inventor]

I looked up the second reference, which was Nazareth. I think I clicked somewhere wrong but I ended up with "Hair of the Dog" by Nazareth. It's a classic that I rembered, but man is it so full of impact. Slow, bashing rock with a steady rhythm based on 1 Hz gong playing. That will work out well with the slow-strumming guitar exercise movements, or so I would think. Hmmm... Good song anyway.